Using your digital product as a gateway into a relationship with Kristina Romero

[00:00:00] Rene: Hey everyone. Welcome to Your First Digital Product, a show that helps maxed-out service providers create their first digital product so they can gain an additional income stream, grow their impact without increasing one-on-one work and experience more time freedom. On the show, I talk to business owners who have launched digital products and dig deep into how you can create, launch, and market your first digital product. I'm your host, Rene Morozowich. Let's go. 

[00:00:28] Hey everybody. Today I'm here with Kristina Romero, and Kristina is the founder of WP Care Market, a training program for online website professionals, author of the Revenue Relationship, co-founder of the Recurring Revenue Retreat, and creator for the GoDaddy Academy, teaching business professionals how to get started and grow their business.

[00:00:47] Hey, Kristina, how are you? 

[00:00:48] Kristina: Great. Doing well. Thanks for having me. 

[00:00:50] Rene: Thanks so much for being on here. Typically I ask you to say a little bit more about you first. So let's do that first. If there's anything else that I didn't mention. 

[00:00:58] Kristina: Sure. I started in completely different industry.

[00:01:01] I was an actress in Hollywood for many years. And on TV and film. Like my husband, when he dated me, he was like, yeah, sure. And I was like, no, no, I actually make a living. 

[00:01:10] Rene: That's awesome. 

[00:01:11] Kristina: Um, he was like, she's an extra in a movie. Um, so I started off there and that helps the story along because, um, you're not in control.

[00:01:19] Like you're not a business owner when you are at the mercy of someone else telling you when you can work and when you cannot work. And so my catalyst for even just starting my own business was I just didn't want anybody to tell me when I could work or not work anymore. I wanted to create and I wanted to sell what I created, so, I left the industry in about what?

[00:01:38] So that was like 2010, 2009, 2010, and started my own web agency and did that for 11 plus years before the training that we'll talk about took off, and I sold my web agency and have been kind of creating more now across different industries since then. So this whole [00:02:00] desire of like starting your first digital product, I think is a nice gateway for a lot of people to step out of whatever they're doing and into something new.

[00:02:08] So I'm excited to talk about that, but that's a little bit about me. 

[00:02:12] Rene: I love that. And I love, I kind of have this feeling and I've, you know, I do solo episodes too, and I, I think about what I wanna talk about every other week that the interviews don't come out and a lot of it's like the way I want to do things versus the way that like, maybe society says you should do things or conventional ways of doing things.

[00:02:29] Like, I just don't wanna do it that way. So I do like that being in control of when you're working and, and just the work you're doing. And I think it's so satisfying, you know, to, to be a business owner and, and just. You get to decide. I mean, it's terrifying also and you know, there's, there's some unknowns and uncertainties, but I really love that part of it, that you can really, like you're in charge and yes, 

[00:02:50] I just think that's great.

[00:02:51] Kristina: I, you know, I kind of always knew that about myself, that I just don't do things the way that other people do things. But I was in the car with my 12 year old the other day, and I had said, for him to do something again. And I was like, why aren't you doing it this way? He goes, he's like, I just don't do things the way other people do things.

[00:03:06] And I was just like, oh my, a little clone. Hello little you. 

[00:03:10] Rene: Right, right, right. 

[00:03:11] Kristina: So, you know, I begin to see more of why I'm like, oh, you reflect, back and you realize mm-hmm. You know more about yourself. Especially as your kids get older too. Yes. You see those traits in them and you're like, oh, okay. Me. 

[00:03:23] Rene: Yes, you definitely do.

[00:03:24] And it's, it's, it's both amazing and scary at the same time. You're like, oh, I hope you get all the good traits. 

[00:03:29] Kristina: Yeah, I know, right. 

[00:03:32] Rene: Awesome. Very cool. Do you wanna tell us about your first product then? You said you had a web agency for several years and then, you know, kind of what made you kind of realized that you were ready to, I don't know, I guess maybe just tell us about how, how it all happened.

[00:03:46] Kristina: Yeah, absolutely. So it actually, the, the genesis of of me creating my own product happened in a different company. And I was in a business training program at the time and I wanted to [00:04:00] share what I was doing. It was just like a, a genuine, like I just wanna share what's working for me cause I think this would help a lot of people.

[00:04:07] I posted a Facebook post in December of, I think that was December of 2015 and it in that business group just went viral in that sense that everybody, I, I posted it, I just recorded myself. I said, this is what I'm doing with website care plans and you guys could do this and da, da da, da da. Well, that ended up getting me a coaching role in that business program.

[00:04:31] They started creating training under them. So my first digital product was actually for a different company, I guess. Yeah, in many ways. Um, it wasn't, you know, anything I was benefiting from. They were selling it and they were paying me as a, as a coach. But I, you know, I kind of realized, oh, I, I, you know, this is a limited capacity.

[00:04:49] I could, I could really share more. And that was the desire for creating the, the digital product was saying, I have this information I think would really help people and I wanna share it. And people are always respectful of the fact that, that's your time. You know, that's your expertise and they're gonna pay you for that knowledge.

[00:05:05] And so the very first, um, digital product I sold was when I decided to create my own training around, implementing website care plans and recurring revenue in an agency. And I started off by first selling it as a webinar. Um, I was going to do it as a webinar. Uh, do it with a group of people on that webinar, work through all the content, see if it was everything people wanted to know. Mm-hmm. Or if there was more that needed to be said, get the feedback from that webinar and then go out and break out and make the first course. 

[00:05:41] So it started as a webinar. They paid for the webinar in sense of saying, you'll, you'll get this webinar, but then you'll also get access to the training that gets recorded from this.

[00:05:51] So, kind of an early adopter thing. Yeah. That was the first thing. It did really well. I sold all the seats for that webinar. It was like, uh, I think 20 total. Mm-hmm. [00:06:00] Uh, just wanted a small group, got the feedback that I needed, and then I went to create the training. The first iteration of that was one long course.

[00:06:12] People would come in and they would just take one long course. Mm-hmm. Over time got feedback to, to split that up into separate pieces. So technically the first digital product was probably the webinar, but the course was set to go live and I had just had a baby, like, you know, again, like why you look back and you're like, yeah, would you do this to yourself? 

[00:06:33] Rene: Yeah. Wait a second. 

[00:06:35] Kristina: So I just had a baby. I was trying to rush, uh, the recording of, of all of this and get it out.

[00:06:40] And it was in February of 2018, I believe. And it was a couple days before the training was gonna launch and it was a drip fed. So although the content had been recorded, not all of it had been edited. Mm-hmm. Or uploaded to the site, but, so of course, last minute. This is why I never recommend the saying build the runway as the plane takes off.

[00:07:06] It's a terrible saying. 

[00:07:08] Rene: Yeah. Okay. Don't good to know. 

[00:07:10] Kristina: Don't take that advice. Mm-hmm. Um, and I had a gallbladder attack. I got rushed to the emergency room and I went into emergency surgery. 

[00:07:18] Rene: Wow. 

[00:07:19] Kristina: And so while I'm in the ER, I, I'm, I texted Robert Simmons, who's my co-founder of the Recurring Revenue Retreat, and my friend at the time, and I said, here's my login for ActiveCampaign.

[00:07:31] Go in and send everybody an email that the course is not coming out in two days. 

[00:07:35] Rene: Oh my goodness. 

[00:07:36] Kristina: And, and, and then go on into the LMS and change the release dates to like mm-hmm. You know, oh, two weeks later, later or whatever it was. Yeah. And, uh, I'm doing all of this, like while on massive painkillers and like in, oh my gosh, excruciating pain.

[00:07:51] Um, and uh, so that was technically the first launch of my, of my product, and it's not, I mean, I'd created training before, so [00:08:00] it wasn't like the product wasn't ready to sell, but I did sell it before it was fully complete. Mm-hmm. And that was the worst case scenario you could ever have that you go to the emergency room like right before it launches.

[00:08:14] Rene: Exactly. 

[00:08:14] Kristina: You have to tell everybody who signed up that they're not going to get the training when it comes out. Mm-hmm. So that was pretty crazy and I think it taught me a lot too about not feeling rushed in this space. Mm-hmm. That like, you know, you get this sense that there's so much competition around the type of digital product that you're putting out.

[00:08:35] Everybody's putting out something similar or if you don't do it this month, somebody else is gonna release it next month. And they probably are, but the level of, of stress and the quality of product that you end up putting out under that assumption is, doesn't do you any good. Mm-hmm. So it, it is good to have a healthy balance between, um, getting a good quality product together and taking the time to make it.

[00:09:02] With the rush of the marketplace. Mm-hmm. And, and finding a nice balance between the two, if anyone's really delaying because they just don't wanna push the button cuz they're scared. Um, you know, that's a wrong motivation, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. But it's, if you're realize, no, I'm not pushing button cuz I'm scared and I, I'm pushing the button because I just want this to, to be good and complete.

[00:09:23] Mm. Listen to that. Mm-hmm. Uh, because there's just a lot of stuff that gets thrown out. And what happens is if you don't really believe in it, you're not gonna market it as well as you would. Right. So, um, Or you might go to the emergency room and. 

[00:09:38] Rene: Exactly. Oh my goodness. That's so stressful.

[00:09:41] Yes. I'm sure that people understood, right? Like you did, you didn't get a lot of like, you know, backlash from that. But still it's stressful on you and you promised the thing and, you know, I didn't like for me, like I, I like to deliver when I say I'm going to deliver, but yeah. Mm-hmm. Unforeseen circumstances that can be, yeah.

[00:09:58] That's scary. 

[00:09:58] Kristina: Same. Wow. Yeah. [00:10:00] And I'm a people pleaser too, so I was just thinking, oh, people are gonna be let down. Everybody was fine with it. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It's good. And its just, yeah, it's just crazy and it's really good to have somebody else there who can jump in for you. Mm-hmm. Should anything happen.

[00:10:14] So always find that person. Yeah. My person is Robert. 

[00:10:17] Rene: Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. That's great. So you said that the, it was one big long course, like, so how long was it out there then as one big long course before you started to make changes to it? Or, you know, people started giving feedback, you know, did you ask for feedback?

[00:10:33] Did they just come in and speak their mind or how did that work? 

[00:10:36] Kristina: Yeah. Um, it was a lot of people saying, Hey, I don't need this part of the course. And for the longest time it was like, well, you kind of do. Yeah. Most people it's like, I was like, you think you don't, but do you even know what's in it? You know?

[00:10:51] Mm-hmm. You say you don't need this piece, but you may eventually need it, so. Mm-hmm. I, I kind of brushed it off for the longest time, and then I went, uh, we had the Recurring Revenue Retreat in 2019. And Brad Morrison from GoWP was there and he said, Hey, I'd, I'd, I'd love to funnel a lot of like our customers into your training, but they don't need like this piece and this piece because it's what we do for them.

[00:11:14] Rene: Oh, okay. 

[00:11:14] Kristina: And I was like, oh, okay, well that's fair. That's good enough. Mm-hmm. And I said, you know what? I wanna, some things have changed. I wanna rerecord it anyway. Mm. And so that's when I decided to, to break it out with, um, just kind of how things had changed in the last year or so and things I wanted to be more specific about, that were coming out in the coaching that people weren't getting and, and, and broke it out into those individual pieces that could be purchased or people could buy the bundle. So that was bundle? Yeah, that was the, yeah, the current, I called it the Care Plan Intensive at time. Basically how you create a website care plan. Mm-hmm. The processes around that agency processes, the automation in that. Um, how do you build your support team, how do you hire a support team or get them to execute them?

[00:11:56] And then just basic sales around selling the care plan to your past [00:12:00] clients and future clients. And that was the whole thing. So I broke it up to five individual courses around you know, $200 each per course or a reduced price for a bundle. And that's the core training that was out there for the longest time.

[00:12:16] Mm-hmm. Um, before I started making some more. 

[00:12:19] Rene: Yeah. So from a technical standpoint, was everything still in the same platform? Like how did you, what did you have to do and how did you let your clients know? Like, Hey, I know you bought this as a full course, and you may have already gone through it, but you know, these are rerecorded and now they're modules like how did you deal with like that technical transition?

[00:12:38] Kristina: So for the learning management system, I was using LearnDash and I kept the original course as a course, okay, in LearnDash that they still had access to. So everyone who had been part of those previous iterations had their original access, had their original coaching calls, and then I put in the new broken up courses.

[00:12:58] Mm-hmm. And then also gave them access to that. So they had everything in there. And I did send an email, by the way, it's new and improved and better. Mm-hmm. You know, you don't have to go through it, but it, there's some changes in there and go check it out and you may like it. 

[00:13:10] Rene: Mm-hmm. And you have access to it now, and it'll just show up in your dashboard or whatever.

[00:13:14] It's, that's cool. Yeah. And I would, I was thinking like, oh no, you have to go back in and modify everything, but it totally makes sense. Just make a new thing. I just make a new one. Yeah. Sorry. Good to know. Yeah. Um, so how about. How does, you mentioned coaching calls, so can people just buy the courses standalone, or do they always come with some sort of interaction from you or your team?

[00:13:34] Or are there different levels where it's just the course and then a package with you and your team? Like how does it work? How much time is, you know, required from you? Yeah. And that you give back to them, the customers. 

[00:13:46] Kristina: So I used to, um, have it as a drip fed, very paced kind of. We open the doors, come in mm-hmm.

[00:13:55] And we all go through it together, whether you go through it or not. And then it became evergreen. And [00:14:00] once it became evergreen, the coaching changes because you're not dealing with, um, an enrollment group and then that enrollment group ends. And so you have an intense focus for a short time. Evergreen is they're always coming in. Mm-hmm. So the coaching became its own product and it became its own little group of a recurring, you know, subscription. And then what I did was I included three months in that bundle so that once people signed up, they could come into the coaching while they were there and then they could choose to continue with it or not.

[00:14:33] Mm-hmm. Um, it, you know, it's kind of like an upsell too when they buy the bundle. Yeah. If you want to have it continue or if you just want it to expire and then they can just sign up at a later date. So in that coaching group, we consistently have around 40 students at a time, it grows a little, um, incrementally depending, and some people, you know, like, okay, well now I've gotten what I need, I'm gonna focus on my business, and then they'll leave or, or they'll stay on. So it's there, which is really nice, but it's not in the same way that it was originally when it was that, um, whatever you wanna call that open door model.

[00:15:09] Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:10] Rene: Right. 

[00:15:10] Kristina: And it's just now 

[00:15:11] Rene: like a cohort 

[00:15:12] Kristina: evergreen. Yeah, exactly. I'm not sure if that's really working anymore anyway for people that open door model. I just had a friend of mine do that and I wonder how successful he was with that launch. 

[00:15:26] Rene: Yes. Yeah. It's kind of like digital products, like 102 or 201, like, you know, the next step of like, okay, you've launched a product.

[00:15:34] When do you open it up? What's the strategy behind it? How much of your time or interaction do people get? I do like that you included that three months. I feel like that's a good, you know, it gives people a taste of it. Mm-hmm. And if they wanna stick around. How did you do the training?

[00:15:48] Is the training like a one-time fee, or is it like a yearly? Like how did, how did the training pricing work? 

[00:15:54] Kristina: Yeah. So for the course, it's, it's, um, lifetime access. Okay. For the lifetime of the product. So it's [00:16:00] important when you say lifetime access, that you say mm-hmm. For the lifetime of the product. So as long as it exists, you have access to it.

[00:16:08] Okay. Because for someone's lifetime that you know Yes. You never know, you know, no one could be doing it anymore, and then you take it down suddenly, you know, they're like, where's my lifetime access? Mm-hmm. So I, I just felt like that's the best. I mean, this is the kind of training that a lot of people go through and they also revisit because they grow and change.

[00:16:27] And so I never wanted it to be, oh, you have two years and then you have to pay for it again. Yes, didn't seem genuine or mm-hmm. You know, helpful to do that. Mm-hmm. The, of course then the coaching is the recurring price, so as long as people are paying, they're in the program for the coaching. Um, and that's worked pretty well and that's why you continue as a course creator to create more courses because you already have this base of people who've gone through your training and want to level up in different ways.

[00:16:56] Mm-hmm. So since that time had released, Buying and Selling a Web Agency. Okay. Um, it was, it was a webinar series and then I turned it into just, you know, recordings. So there was that. And then there's also, um, Outreach and Conversion for Care Plans and how to go for cold outreach or warm leads or referrals or past clients to really convert them to care plans.

[00:17:17] So there's that training as well. Um, and then now with the release of my book, I've created a monthly workshop that people can read the book, come into the workshop, get the advice that they need to implement. Um, more of like, than just reading a book and not feeling motivated. 

[00:17:34] Rene: Yeah. And also you just read the book and then you're like, okay.

[00:17:36] And they put the book down and then you put away and you forget that the book exists. And, and maybe some of the ideas stuck, but yeah. So do you wanna talk more about the book now? So the book is relatively new. 

[00:17:46] Kristina: Yes. Uh, just released it a few weeks ago. Nice. Um, yeah, it was great. You know, again, this is what's really helpful with having an audience from like your first digital product is that you have a list and there's people there.

[00:17:59] [00:18:00] Mm-hmm. So when you release a book like this, if you do it right, you can, thanks to advice I got from Mike Killen, you can pretty much end up number one on Amazon for that short period of time that your book's released. Which was, which was huge and, and again, a small victory. Not that it was number one worthy, but that it was like, wow, my list.

[00:18:20] Like, yay, thanks guys. Because it was truly the turnout of that list that made it, you know, go to number one. So it was really awesome. Um, the title of the book is The Revenue Relationship. It's about setting up a business that's optimized for recurring revenue. Mm-hmm. So this is perfect for digital products because you really have to think about who your customer is or client for that matter, and what ways you can serve them to continually build a relationship that facilitates recurring revenue.

[00:18:50] Mm-hmm. So it has a model in there called Core, which is also the name of our coaching program about what I call a care product. So your first digital product could technically be your care product. It's that gateway into a relationship with you, and then you further optimize that relationship with that client through optimized products and what those look like, which are typically recurring revenue products. Um, then you have a redesign phase and an evolve phase. So time in which you maybe don't have it as recurring revenue. It's a service you provide where your services live is basically in that redesign stage. Okay. And then evolve is the last stage of kind of evaluating where your client is.

[00:19:31] You can take them to the next level. And then you sort of cycle through that, uh, care, optimize, redesign and evolve and, and you can keep clients going through that cycle every one year, two years, three years, onto different products, onto different services, uh, because of that relationship, because of understanding what you provide your clients to help their business grow.

[00:19:51] Mm-hmm. Um, that's what's about, that we can't think transactional with clients. If you're a service provider, you really have to think [00:20:00] through relationship and building that trust, building that system and process in which you take your clients and they actually grow through their relationship with you.

[00:20:11] So it's mutually beneficial. They pay you for your services and then you're investing time in them to help them grow their business. Uh, that's what the book is, is about and it's a quick read. 

[00:20:21] Rene: There's a lot of, lot of lengthy books out there that's like, this could be much shorter, like you said, said this 10 times. Yes. Yeah. I like a nice short, like concise, get right to the point, you know, here's all the meat.

[00:20:33] Kristina: Exactly. Uh, so I did that, but also my history in, in the training world is that, you know, getting in person or getting on a call is totally different for implementation.

[00:20:46] So I did create that workshop to go with the book so people could come in. I'm hopefully gonna be doing it once a month. So if you miss Mays, then you can make Junes. If you miss Junes, you can make Julys. So people get in there and it's half instruction, half mastermind to where you say, okay, these are the principles that we talked about in the book.

[00:21:06] How do we actually implement them? Mm-hmm. So if anyone's really struggling, they can raise their hand, we can walk through it and others can learn from, from other people.

[00:21:13] Rene: Yeah. That's great. So how are people purchasing, like they're purchasing through Amazon and then they're go like, how then do you get them?

[00:21:21] Uh, let them know about the workshops and the mastermind Yeah. And all that stuff. 

[00:21:25] Kristina: Great question. So, um, and this is also in my other product we can talk about too, is that you have to have a way to lead capture the Amazon sale. Amazon will never share the email address or, um, name or mailing address unless you are the seller, uh, and you're shipping them out from your garage.

[00:21:42] Rene: Okay. And you're not doing that. 

[00:21:44] Kristina: Yeah, no, so I published through Amazon, so Amazon can print it and they can send it economically. That's a best option for someone with, at my level because I make the more profit and, and only profit, like you can make really that way [00:22:00] that they print it, they ship it.

[00:22:02] There's no overhead, which is super nice. Well, this book comes with worksheets, so if anyone had any remote idea of, of wanting to implement this, um, they're gonna be downloading the worksheet on the website. When they download the worksheet, they're subscribed to the email list, and then they can be followed up with about the workshop.

[00:22:20] So that's how that works. And it's not nefarious. Mm-hmm. I mean, it's legitimate. Like you downloaded the worksheets, you wanna work through it. If you need help working through it. And sign up for the workshop. Mm-hmm. So that's how.

[00:22:31] Rene: I think anybody who's ever read a business book too really kind of expects that this is how it all works.

[00:22:36] Like, you know, I always, I love those worksheets. I don't know, I'm like a sucker for the worksheets. Like I'm reading the book, I love the book, I wanna go get the worksheets. I'm on the list and then kind of being nurtured, yeah, to do something else, or, you know, if they have something else to sell or whatever it is.

[00:22:50] Um, so I like it. And to be able to get those leads. I have some clients that'll come to me and they're like, well, I wanna sell this or this. And I'm like, okay, that's a physical product. Like do you have any idea what's involved in a physical product? Storage and mm-hmm.

[00:23:03] What? You are gonna have mailers and you're gonna have like a what, a shipping station in your living room? Like no. Like, yes, that is perfectly great for a lot of people. Um, but. Like, I'm in the digital space. I love the digital space. So yeah, I'm not a huge fan of the, the labor. 

[00:23:18] Kristina: Yeah. There's just a very little overhead mm-hmm.

[00:23:20] When you deal with digital space. It's quick to get started. Mm-hmm. Which is awesome. And it's, um, easy to deliver products. Uh, I had my sister came up with some ideas for business and she said to me like, okay, well, you know, did you go to the bank and take out a loan? And I was, was like, no, because it didn't have, I didn't have to, like, there's no overhead.

[00:23:41] So I was able to start my agency, start my training program all with, not even, I didn't have a credit card for the longest time. I didn't have to. I do it now just almost for security reasons, so that like no money surprisingly disappears from my account. Yes. But, um, but that's the beauty of running, uh, a business that [00:24:00] provides digital products or services for that matter. Yeah. 

[00:24:02] Rene: Yes. Agreed. Yeah, I totally agree. So you mentioned before we started recording about the Audible version. So tell me about that. People are interested in consuming podcasts and, and audio content when they're not at their computer, or don't have a, a physical book or Kindle in front of them, you know, maybe when they're out walking or whatever.

[00:24:19] So how, if you already use the list to market the, like the physical book or the, or the Kindle version, how will you then say like, Hey, Audible is available, or how do you market that one? 

[00:24:32] Kristina: Yeah, so this is really interesting. I'm, I'm just getting now, uh, getting this audible produced.

[00:24:38] So, 

[00:24:39] Rene: And is it you? Are you doing the reading? 

[00:24:41] Kristina: It's me. I mean, but kind of me. Okay. Me and not me. So I'm kind of fortunate that, that my sister is also a voiceover artist, so she has her own voiceover studio. So that's really fortunate. But actually you know what to do afterwards. I had no clue until, um, there's a website called acx.com.

[00:24:59] Okay. And it's an Audible company. It's basically audible's answer to let's get your book on Audible. So it's like the, um, the productized version of going on to Audible. Um, and so I am gonna use my sister, which is great, but you can actually go on here and you can find a voiceover talent and a producer to do it for you.

[00:25:21] Wow. And it's super affordable, in my opinion. Mm-hmm. Based on what I know about the industry. Mm-hmm. Uh, and so you can go on here, you can get started and you can pick a voice talent, and you can pick the producer, you can do it yourself, or you can, it's really cool. So, um, most of the voiceover talent will actually produce their own for, you know, for you because they have their own studio.

[00:25:42] Um, but I, I love, I love innovation like that. I love stuff like that. Yeah. So I'm excited to get that finished and then exactly. I'll, I'll email out to. I mean the whole list at this point. You know, often I go to click the whole list and I'm like, should I, I'm gonna get some [00:26:00] unsubscribes. And then I'm like, well, that's the point.

[00:26:02] I mean, if they're unsubscribing, then they don't wanna hear anything I have to say. So why are they even here? It's fine. 

[00:26:08] Rene: So then you have to pay for them? Like Yeah, I think the unsubscribes are okay, but people do say like, don't send to the whole list. Don't send to the whole list. Yeah. So I, I hear you on that. 

[00:26:17] Kristina: At some point I'm like, I don't email that much.

[00:26:19] Mm-hmm. You know, I, I, I really don't, and, and I don't self-promote too much either. I mean, I'll, I'll be doing some kind of free webinar or I'll push out something that's really cool or a blog post or whatever, but you know, I'm not emailing that much either. So Yeah. These people who fall off this 1% who unsubscribed it, How do you know they got on the list?

[00:26:39] They just don't like emails in their inbox. I dunno what it's, so, yeah. 

[00:26:43] Rene: And now your open, open rates are better, like when people unsubscribe your open rates go, go up, like. 

[00:26:47] Kristina: Yeah. I dunno. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:26:49] Rene: Agreed. Um, yes. Yeah. So anything else, um, that you wanna say about the book, I guess, or, and you mentioned you have another, another product out there.

[00:26:57] Kristina: Yeah, so I like to write, uh, and I guess the whole thing is I went to school for writing. I got a master's in in writing. And then I started making websites because I made money doing websites and I don't make a lot of money doing writing. So, uh, and also I didn't have any direction at that point, so, and I went into the world of websites and marketing and all of that beautiful stuff.

[00:27:22] Um, so now I, I've been able to circle back to my writing world, which is really fun. So I'm writing more books and. You know, kind of following the creative path cuz I have the time to do it, which is fun. So I have a series called the Hagios Study, H A G I O S. And it's a series of Bible studies. But where this comes in with a digital product, which is kind of cool, is that I created a mobile app with the study. 

[00:27:47] So people can buy the study on Amazon or big churches can buy it in bulk to do like a, a study in their church, but you have to download the app in order to get this [00:28:00] really cool music meditations and mm-hmm other things that are on the app. So again, lead capture. So I will never know who will buy the Amazon book I sell.

[00:28:09] I mean, I saw a nice handful just from people finding it on Amazon. Mm-hmm. Just a nice, like how, I mean it could always be better, but I will never know who those people are. Mm-hmm. But I do know who those people are because in order to send up for the app, they have to put in their name and their email.

[00:28:21] Rene: Oh, nice. 

[00:28:22] Kristina: So I've steadily grown it by not doing anything because it's, Amazon sort of provides it based on people's search terms. Mm-hmm. Um, so hopefully as I get more and more time, I'll probably pivot more into Amazon ads and Amazon marketing those techniques. Mm-hmm. They've taken a few of their webinars and stuff to get to kind of understand more of how to leverage now with all the books.

[00:28:47] So I'll have. Come this summer, I'll have four books on Amazon. Oh, nice. So, yeah. So I'm like, I'm thinking, you know, now's the time for me to really start learning it for all of those books. Mm-hmm. And how to, you know, leverage, leverage that. And again, a book, like you said, if, if you're gonna publish a physical product, you really have to think about the digital component of that.

[00:29:09] How do you capture those, those leads so that you can turn it into a community or future products, um, or helpful advice, whatever it is. 

[00:29:19] Rene: Yeah. E even services. Yeah. Any, any number of things after that product. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I love that and I love that. Um, so many kind of like diverse things. Do you feel that like, uh, because it's been a while since you had the agency and you've been doing like the care market training, do you kind of feel like you're ready to pivot your focus out of that, or like, do you still feel. 

[00:29:42] Kristina: I think it's just, you get bored. 

[00:29:44] Rene: I don't wanna say it like that. Are you bored? 

[00:29:46] Kristina: It's, it's, you do get bored. You and I, in my agency for all those years, I'd get, I'd get bored. I think that's where the passion projects come in.

[00:29:53] Mm-hmm. The side passion projects that you do, it just helps release the creativity. In a healthy way, and [00:30:00] you kind of get the breath and then you can head back and focus in on, on the yes. On the, the, uh, the task at hand, if you will. Yeah. And so that's kind of where it lives. Right now I have the training program.

[00:30:13] I have the stuff I'm doing with GoDaddy, which is also creating digital products in that weird way. So, um, you know, those are the main tasks at hand, but the passion project really just help just release a lot of that creativity, keep it fresh, and so, yeah. 

[00:30:28] Rene: Yeah, that makes sense. How are you marketing the care market training? What kind of things are you doing to kind of bring awareness to it?

[00:30:37] Kristina: Yeah, so the main thing that always worked, that worked right away was the Facebook group. Um, okay. Having a community and, and. You know, again, I could be much, much better about posting in that community more often, like I was in the very beginning. But in the very beginning, I posted quite frequently, uh, ran a lot of, uh, free webinars.

[00:30:57] Mm-hmm. Uh, to attract people to the content. And then, um, I do have, um, leads every day come in through the free resource download on the website. Okay. So they find the website through guest blog content, summits or conferences I did mm-hmm. Or talks I did or whatever.

[00:31:14] And they find the website and they'll get the popup for the free content. And I get that, um, daily. They get the free resource and then in their time, whenever they feel like it's gonna benefit them, they'll. I, I do have, like, I do follow it and say like, how soon often do they convert to buying the, yeah.

[00:31:31] Rene: I'd be curious. 

[00:31:32] Kristina: Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, I mean, it's, it varies. It really varies widely. Mm-hmm. Yeah, people really look for the big promotions, like discounts and, and stuff like that. So, you know, the, the Black Friday deals and.

[00:31:45] Rene: Yes, black Friday.

[00:31:46] Kristina: Those, you know, those types of things, um, work really, really well in getting a whole bunch of people at once.

[00:31:52] But you know, once a week, you know, someone's buying, you know, the bundle or whatever and mm-hmm. And so I [00:32:00] know there's always more that I could do. 

[00:32:03] Rene: Well, there's always, there's always more, but Yeah. But I mean, there's a balance because I think that like it, the, the return, yeah. After a certain point, you know, maybe isn't as much as you would think it would be, but also then you're taking your time away from your passion projects Yes. Or other things that are really doing. You know, good things for you. Yeah. So, right. I, I think that there's a, and you have to find the balance, cuz if you put too much into it, then you're gonna burn out. Mm-hmm. So I, I don't think it's necessarily, um, the best to just like more and more and more like. 

[00:32:34] Kristina: I know, and it's been five years and if I look back at the revenue that I've gotten from this training program mm-hmm.

[00:32:41] For the last five years, I mean, it's, it's, I, I'm very happy with it. You know, it's like wow. Pretty awesome that you know that it is as brought in as, as much as it has and as many people as it has. I think there is, with this space of, I mean, I'm still finding people who don't have care plans. I'm still finding people who haven't implemented this, so it is out there.

[00:33:04] But for the audience that I was reaching, I feel like I've pretty much gotten that conversation out. Mm-hmm. And so now other people are having that conversation. It's in other places. And that's what naturally happens often with digital products related to training, is that, you know, you can be novel in the beginning.

[00:33:23] It's content that people haven't heard before and that they seek out and that they want. But then after a few years, I mean, the conversation normalizes, which is hopefully what you intend to do anyway. Yeah. And. And the information is out there. Mm-hmm. So I've found over now since, cuz goodness, that was like 2015 that I was in the business program.

[00:33:44] So it's been seven, eight years now of watching. Watching the evolution of digital products with training, watching the evolution of that has been really interesting cuz I would say if anyone's creating a course, [00:34:00] um, really feel like two to three years is probably your prime place for that course to where you are the first person to the conversation.

[00:34:09] What you had to say is new and different and helpful. To where it's now, it's spreads and then it's available in many, many, many other forms, in many other environments. Mm-hmm. That's what I've seen. Interesting. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think that's a, that's, that is a conversation I actually haven't really had or talked much about.

[00:34:27] Yeah. But that's what I've seen. Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:30] Rene: Yeah. And just like, just another thing that you had mentioned before about the long linear course versus like the bits and pieces. I've, I've been hearing that too, that it's. It's not so much the, the big course. It's, it's kind of like the, you can sell all of the individual pieces together, but it's more so about creating all of the pieces so that people can just kind of pick and choose what they are interested in or what they need to know at the time, which I think it makes it a lot easier to build. Um, you know, I haven't, yeah, I haven't done that, but I would think that, you know, you, you build one and release it and build another and you release it and then, you know, after you have 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, 20, you know, like here, if you want, want the bundle, you can get them.

[00:35:11] But you know, you didn't spend so long creating this huge, long, epic thing. 

[00:35:16] Kristina: Yeah. Well I think what happened in that phase about, you know, eight, seven years ago, is that as these big programs came out, they were, you know, a thousand, $2,000, uh, for a lot of these big training programs. Mm-hmm. And they offered payment plans. When you run your own program, you realize, you know, if you're not drip feeding the content, people can stop the payment plan and then you're chasing money.

[00:35:40] Mm-hmm. So breaking up the courses is an also a nice way to avoid having, still keeping it high value for, for what it is. But not feeling pressured to provide a payment plan so people can buy a, a section or a chunk for a hundred or $200 and kind of make their way through the content at their own [00:36:00] pace.

[00:36:00] Mm-hmm. So if I get any questions about payment plans now, they're usually from, um, select some, select other countries and, uh mm-hmm. And those are the countries that often steal the content that we've also found. Yeah. So, um, so if I've ever gotten a question, uh, and I hate to stereotype it in this way, it's usually from a specific country and it's usually probably because they wanna steal the content.

[00:36:22] Mm-hmm. So that stinks. That's also a motivator why Yeah. Why I broke them up as well. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:36:29] Rene: Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. Good to know. Yes. Awesome. Yeah. So anything else that we didn't talk about that you. We should mention before, um, we talk about any advice. 

[00:36:40] Kristina: I mean, I guess just helpful advice for creating a digital product was what I'll reiterate again, um, about the whole adage of building the runway while the plane takes off. Mm-hmm. You know, it applies a lot to digital products because you can sell it and you know that you're the one that's creating it. Mm-hmm. So you'll get to it, you'll make that video, or you'll make that download, or you'll make that, you know, whatever the software, whatever it is.

[00:37:07] Um, but you'll just pre-sell it so that you know, people are interested. I think there's a better way to gauge interest than to pre-sell it when you don't have the product. And I say this only because I've seen behind the curtain of a lot of different places, and I just don't think that's a good way, an ethical way to run a business.

[00:37:26] Mm-hmm. So, uh, I know that's a big advice that's out there, big guru type of stuff. Mm-hmm. Um, there's, there's a way that you can provide a piece of your content and get people on a list. Um, there's even a way that you can do what I did with the webinar in the sense of. Let me give you something. Let me give you a webinar and you'll pay for that and you'll be grandfathered into the content that comes.

[00:37:51] Mm-hmm. So I would say that's the biggest advice around digital products, I, I wanna say, is just be very careful when it comes to that because, you know, you, you [00:38:00] kind of get one chance sometimes in a lot of these communities, and you don't want to get, you know, a bad reputation around not delivering a good quality product.

[00:38:08] Mm-hmm. So there's don't feel, and don't feel rushed by the market. I mean, do let it motivate you, but don't feel like you will. You know, miss out if you don't get it out by Friday. 

[00:38:19] Rene: Yeah, that's true. 

[00:38:20] Kristina: I would say like too, it's very, very difficult to put together your, um, sales page if you don't know what your product is. Yes. But that's the, that's the other thing. And I'd say when you're actually creating it, you know, it does take on a life of its own and it do, things do come out.

[00:38:37] Mm-hmm. I see this when I create the content with GoDaddy, all the time. I create. You know, an outline of what the course is going to be, and I say in the outline what the course is gonna be, but as I'm writing it, it, it takes on a life of its own. Mm-hmm. I had a great, one of my favorite courses is called Ethical Website Development.

[00:38:54] And I had an assumption of what I thought that was, but as I was writing the content and actually exploring this, this world that we, this has not been a hot topic and it should be. I was like, oh, like, you know, things came in and it was just so fascinating to learn. Well, it, you know, that outline changes and what that looks like completely changes.

[00:39:15] Um, so that's the other piece that we have to remember when we go and we pre-sell stuff, is that you might do yourself a disservice by locking yourself into something when it's actually so really beautiful you end up creating mm-hmm. When you give it time. 

[00:39:27] Rene: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. You don't know what you don't know yet, so.

[00:39:30] Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. So any other advice that you have for people who have not created, they haven't created anything yet? They're, yeah, just getting started. 

[00:39:38] Kristina: Come to The Recurring Revenue Retreat. Yes. Yeah. That's my other piece of advice in November, end up creating something that creates recurring revenue.

[00:39:44] Mm-hmm. Um, just selling something one off is a lot, a lot of work. Uh, if it's recurring, well then you've done the same amount of work, but it's going to yield results on a consistent basis. So if you can think of a way to do it as recurring, do [00:40:00] that. Mm-hmm. There's a great book called The Automatic Customer by John Warrillow.

[00:40:04] That is a great book to start with. Um, come to the recurring Revenue retreat in Walt Disney World, uh, in November. 

[00:40:10] Rene: Yeah, I'll put the link in the show notes. 

[00:40:11] Kristina: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can put my coupon on there too. I think it's like a hundred dollars off or if it's more. And that's a great surprise. Um, excellent.

[00:40:19] Um, yeah, so I would say that's a great place to start to, to be, if you're in the, um, if you're kind of in the web space to begin with. If you're in marketing or website design or, or graphic design, it's a great community and you will feel inspired. You will walk out with what you need to do. That's the whole point of the retreat is to walk out with what you need to do.

[00:40:38] Rene: So, yes. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah, I like that. And I think it's so important to find these communities that you can be a part of to kind of get that inspiration. We're a lot of business owners, service providers, we're, we're just at home or we're in our coworking space or whatever, and, you know, we don't have the benefit of those coworkers necessarily to bounce ideas off of, you know, depending on the size of your team.

[00:40:59] So going to events is so, can be really powerful to, you know, get that inspiration and, and see what other people are doing. And I love that. 

[00:41:07] Kristina: It is, it's so wonderful. It, it is. I, I love my husband, but when I talk about my ideas with him, it just, he's coming from, from a different world and just doesn't get it.

[00:41:21] And that's all I got. Mm-hmm. So, or my 12 year old son, you know, I wanted to write this story and he like, totally trashed. Aw. Like, I'm not. I'm not going with any of your guys' advice anymore. Yes. Yeah. So yes, it's a hundred percent getting in, getting in with like-minded individuals Yes. Is what I call it.

[00:41:39] Mm-hmm. Because it not, doesn't have to be in the same thing that you do. It's just like-minded. Mm-hmm. They're entrepreneurs, they get it. They, they understand the product ums needs and what you, what you need out of it, so. Mm-hmm. Um, it's a really, really fun time too. We, we have way too much fun at.

[00:41:57] Rene: Is there such a thing?

[00:41:58] Too much fun? 

[00:41:59] Kristina: [00:42:00] Uh, maybe. 

[00:42:02] Rene: Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on and, and sharing all of your info. Where can people find you online? 

[00:42:08] Kristina: Sure. So if you are in, uh, you are running a web agency or a web freelancer, any kind of marketing professional, and you want more of what I was talking about, uh, wpcaremarket.com is where I have all my training and stuff.

[00:42:21] But if you're just really interested in like the craziest projects that I do, like the multiple things I do all the time, kristinaromero.com is where my staff, I have, um, all my little side projects on there on. Maybe, I mean, I shouldn't even call 'em side projects at that point. I think they're taking up equal time in my day.

[00:42:39] Yes. Everything else. Yeah. That's awesome. Um, and yeah, so just if, if you are on Facebook, we do have a Facebook group for website care professionals, um, and you can search for that. You'll find it on the website. Excellent. Yeah. Great. 

[00:42:54] Rene: Yeah. Perfect. I'll put the link in. 

[00:42:55] Kristina: Get the book!

[00:42:56] Rene: Notes.

[00:42:56] Kristina: Get the, The Revenue Relationship here.

[00:42:58] Yeah. Excellent. 

[00:42:59] Rene: There we go. Oh, picture. Yep. For people who are watching the video. Yes. Excellent. Love it. Love the money in the hands. Yes. 

[00:43:04] Kristina: Yeah, the fun. So I again, yeah. Deer Designer, helped do that. 

[00:43:08] Rene: Oh, sweet. Well, thank you so much for coming on, and I will talk to you soon.

[00:43:12] Kristina: Thanks, Rene. Thank you. 

[00:43:13] Rene: Hey, thanks for listening. I'd love to continue the conversation in your inbox. Email SUBSCRIBE to hey at yfdp.show or sign up in the show notes to get bimonthly emails about how you can create, launch, and market your first digital product. Can't wait to see you there.