[00:00:00] Rene: Hey friends. I'm so excited about this episode today. I know that I say that about every episode. Laura talks about how she created her first product, but then didn't sell it. However she was able to use it in her membership, in her group program. 

[00:00:16] And it was really the foundation of all of the other courses that she has created. And she also has journals and workbooks and a bunch of stuff. I also really love how she talks about knowing yourself and finding what works best for you. And that really changes over time. 

[00:00:33] So what works really well for you right now might not work great for you in two years when your situation changes or your circumstance changes. So just kind of keep that in mind. She also has a ton of products because she finds that that works really well for her. And she packages those up in different ways. 

[00:00:54] She has an all access pass. She has a way that you can work with her one-on-one where you get access to those products.

[00:01:02] And there's so many great things in this episode. I can't wait for you to listen to it today. Hey everyone. Welcome to Your First Digital Product, a show that helps maxed out service providers create their first digital product so they can gain an additional income stream, grow their impact without increasing one on one work, and experience more time freedom. On the show, I talk to business owners who have launched digital products and dig deep into how you can create, launch, and market your first digital product. I'm your host Rene Morozowich. Let's go!

[00:01:34] Rene: Hey everybody. 

[00:01:35] Today I'm here with Laura Robinson and Laura is a marketing mentor for people who sell their expertise online as one-on-one services, courses, memberships, and group programs, helping them get comfortable with creating, selling, and marketing their offers so they can enjoy a regular income and doing work that fits around their life.

[00:01:53] Hey, Laura, how are you?

[00:01:56] Laura: Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I'm great. Thank you.

[00:01:58] Rene: I am so excited you're here [00:02:00] and I think Kay from, I don't know if she was in season one or two, um, had talked about you in the interview that I did with her, and she mentioned you and I looked you up, and I love all of your offerings. I love your website. I love the design. I'm so excited to talk about all these things today.

[00:02:17] But why don't you tell us just a little bit more about you in your own words.

[00:02:21] Laura: Okay, well, I live in England, in East Ang on the coast. I can see the sea from my window. It's about a mile away. 

[00:02:28] Rene: Wow.

[00:02:29] Laura: And my business, I was a copywriter. Like my training is being a copywriter and that was like my one-to-one work. I started that about 15 years ago, and my business is entirely designed around my kids. I have teenage sons that I home educate.

[00:02:44] I wanna be able to go to the beach whenever I feel like it. Like if the tide is right and the weather is good, I wanna be able to drop my work and take them to the beach. Um, I, um, volunteer, uh, wildlife rescuer, so I rescue seals off of our local beach. Um, and so everything about my business is just designed to work around my life.

[00:03:00] Um. Rather than having a specific growth goal in mind or like something that I'm stretching or working towards

[00:03:08] Rene: I love all of that. All of those things. So you have many, many products right now. I looked at your website and you have many products, and I will list, I'll have a link to these in the show notes.

[00:03:16] Uh, but you have everything from journals to workbooks to short courses, to self study courses, um, at various price points and tons of great stuff out there now. So I'm wondering what your first product was, and then kind of what happened? When was it? Who was it for? Why did you do it? All that good stuff.

[00:03:36] Laura: Okay, so I made my first product about, I think it was about 10 years ago, nine or 10 years ago now. Um. Yeah, let's say nine and it was, I wrote three at the same time. One was about how to write your about page. It was like a mini course, get your about page done in, I don't know, the weekend or something. And then another one was about how to write your homepage.

[00:03:57] And then the other one was about how to write your work with me page. [00:04:00] And I created these courses, um, because those were the products that I, uh, or the services that I sold as a copywriter, most often that was what people wanted help with. But also there was plenty of people that wanted that help and they couldn't afford to work once one with a copywriter, or they really wanted to do it themselves.

[00:04:13] Like some people genuinely enjoy writing and they wanted to be able to do it themselves. So. I took the processes that I used as a copywriter, turned it into a course so that other people could do it for themselves. And I remember the, I got this plugin to go on my website. It was Learn something or other, and I made these little graphics up of like folders or kind of briefcases that had like the about page written on it and homepage.

[00:04:36] And I got it all set up and I was genuinely a hundred percent ready to press go to start selling it for about 25 pounds each. So it's about $30. And I realized, oh wow, I know like a hundred people in the online world. My, I didn't really have an email list. You know, I had like, I remember clawing my way to a hundred likes on Facebook and being like, yes, this has taken me a year.

[00:04:58] Now I'm ready to release a course. And I did the maths after I had created the courses and realized this doesn't add up. Like I, I could launch these courses and some people will buy it, and then what do I do after that? 'cause it had taken so much out of me just to create them in the first place. So I actually never, I didn't release them as standalone products.

[00:05:17] I decided to create a membership and I would use those three courses as like the foundation material inside the membership. So when people joined, there was at least something in it. And I did the um, like the typical, create something new every month as well. And so I decided to, to to kind of change my goal to launch a membership, and I think it was about $40 a month.

[00:05:39] I then also switched currencies halfway through doing this. Um, and my aim was to have about 40 members, like 40 founding members, $30 or $40 a month as the membership, use those courses as the foundational content. And that was something I could then, like, I could live off of that enough to be able to use that monthly income to free up my time so that I could keep creating more content.

[00:05:59] Um. [00:06:00] So, and I did, I launched the membership about probably a year later. It wasn't straight away. Um, and then I ran that for a few years and then I closed that and I launched a group program that was kind of repurposing that content. And so those original courses that never saw the light of day as products of their own right have been the kind of foundational content for all of the products that I've created since then.

[00:06:25] Rene: Interesting. So why did you close the membership? And then how did the group program, how was the group program different than the membership? Like I'm curious about like the later parts of this journey.

[00:06:37] Laura: So the membership, because it was like a few years ago, about four or five years ago now it's, it's a bit hazy, the switch over time. But, um, I, the membership was quite high touch, so it started off like a regular membership, not much. Um, like one-to-one contact with me. And then it became clear that people did not want more and more content.

[00:06:54] They just wanted more time with me. So I put the price up and it was quite high touch. And then. Uh, winter 2019, we were having some renovation work done on our house, which is like, that's a massive understatement. The back of our house had a, a new floor built on it. And so at one point there was no, there were no internal walls or ceilings in our house.

[00:07:16] It was just like this brick shell and everything was being done inside it. So we moved in with my parents, um, and it, it was just not sustainable like to have a membership and be trying to have all this like one-to-one contact with people. Who were members and I couldn't create new content content anyway 'cause I didn't have like my office set up or anything.

[00:07:34] So I muddled through as best as I could, but I just, it, it was like the, the break from my routine that I needed to see. Like, I'm not enjoying this now in this setup and I don't think I'm gonna enjoy it when I get back into my house. Like it's, this isn't a temporary, I don't enjoy this situation. This is, uh, something's changed in me and my, and the, and the way that we're working.

[00:07:52] And uh, so I just knew it was time to move on to something else. And the group program was still about the [00:08:00] same kind of idea of writing your website content and uh, like how do you sell what you sell, like how do you represent that online? Uh, but I just repackaged the content in a slightly different way and ran it as a group cohort.

[00:08:11] So I I had more control over the time that I was spending face-to-face with people, and when they were wanting feedback from me, um, and I could create gaps. So it was run for 12 weeks, I think, and then I could create like a four week gap so that it wasn't the same, like continuous plotting along rhythm that you can get with a membership.

[00:08:31] Rene: I like that. So do people, after they go through the group program one time, let's say it's 12 weeks, I think you said, do they come back again or do you find that there are new people coming or is it a mix?

[00:08:43] Laura: Well, the group program is then just something else that I've retired

[00:08:46] Rene: Oh, okay. Okay.

[00:08:47] Laura: after about two or three years.

[00:08:49] Rene: Okay. Well then when you did it, did people come back again?

[00:08:54] Laura: Sometimes they did. Yeah. I offered them a renewal fee. It was, it was about 400 pounds or 400, yeah, 400 pounds to do it the first time around. And then if you wanted to come back around, it was only like a hundred pounds. So it was just something so that you had some skin in the game for turning up for the calls and doing the work.

[00:09:10] But I wasn't charging a huge amount because they already had access to all the material. Um, so yeah, some people did come back.

[00:09:16] Rene: Okay. And so why did you retire the group program then?

[00:09:20] Laura: Um, again, like I just, my life evolved and things changed and it, the, the format didn't work for me. Um, I live with chronic migraine and that flared up quite badly, um, around the end of 2020, or beginning of 2021 and I realized that Zoom calls were like a significant trigger for me. I mean like, it's fine.

[00:09:42] I'm happy to be here. I always feel really nervous when I tell people that. They're like, oh no, I'm holding you against your will on a Zoom call. But I know like sometimes I need to to do them, but at the time I was spending like many hours sat on video chat and I think it's mostly like I'm not a very good auditory [00:10:00] processor.

[00:10:00] Like I feel very self-conscious when I'm trying to process what somebody's saying and then to try and deal with like the visual inputs at the same time. And I was like, managing group calls. So you are talking to one person, but you're definitely aware that there are other people and you think, oh, someone's been waiting for a really long time to talk and that person needs to leave soon.

[00:10:16] And it just, I found it quite energetically draining. Um, but I didn't realize that for a while. So it's not like I was sitting through these calls going, oh, I really wish I wasn't here you know, I was enjoying them and I really enjoyed working with people in that way, and it was taking me time to realize, you don't feel very well after you've been doing this for, for a while.

[00:10:36] So I took a break from doing it, and then I felt so much better when I did the break. I realized, okay, I'm not, I'm not working with people in that way again. And I actually like stopped having Zoom or video chat as part of any of my office. So I, I stopped doing one-to-one clients where I would have a big kickoff call on Zoom chat.

[00:10:54] I, uh, canceled my retainer clients because they were all based on Zoom Chat and I stopped the group program and I kind of rebuilt my business again based on what would work for me, which is kind of how I've ended up with so many offers. Because I was at the time thinking, okay, well what can I do? I can create courses.

[00:11:09] I know I can sit and write a course and record a course and I feel okay. And I knew that when I launched a course people would buy it 'cause I had an audience to buy it. And so that's how I ended up with so many products because those were things I could create in my own time around like my other commitments and around my health.

[00:11:24] And I felt reasonably confident they would generate a co um, an income every time I launched because I had the audience to sell them to.

[00:11:30] Rene: Mm-Hmm. Right. I think that a lot of people think myself included sometimes that, you know, like you embark on something new, like, uh, you know, a course or a membership or a group program or something, and then you think like, okay, I'm going to do this, and then this is how it's going to be for all time.

[00:11:48] Like, and I think that we we shouldn't think like that. We should recognize that like, yes, this may be great for now, but it's not going to be forever. It's not [00:12:00] maybe always going to work for you or your specific situation because your situation changes. And I think that's just a really good thing to keep in mind.

[00:12:07] And I love when people say things like that, like, oh, well I did this for a while and then it didn't work, but here's what I did instead. And then that worked. So I think that's great.

[00:12:16] Laura: I think I've been quite aware, even from like 16, 18 years old, my attention span something is 18 months.

[00:12:23] Like without. If I look at the things that I have, like the decisions I've made and the changes I've made, I can stick at something for about 18 months before I start to like I'm kind of bored of this.

[00:12:33] Rene: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:12:34] Laura: Time for something new.

[00:12:35] And that awareness is really helpful because I've got to like midway through the second year of my degree and I was like, yeah, I'm done with this. This is boring. And I could talk, like I could have a chat with myself and say, no, we always do this. And we knew this was three years when we started and so we're gonna see this through.

[00:12:48] So for things like that where I know it's got a defined time and I have to stick with it, I can be aware of that like energy shift in myself where I'm like, yeah, I'm, I'm done with this. I'm ready to move on. Um, but when in jobs I never, like 18 months was definitely the top. So I was going to work at anything.

[00:13:04] And I think in, in like my business, it's been very similar. After 18 months starts to get a bit restless, I'm ready for things to look a bit different. And it doesn't always have to be a drastic change, but I'm I know I'm ready for change, but also my business works around my life. And like you said, you've got a teenager like, so I left my job when they were two and four years old, and they're 18 and 16 now.

[00:13:27] Like we have been through so many iterations of what our family life looks like and what our schedule looks like week in, week out, and every time we've had a shift, I've had to adapt my business around that because that's my choice, like I could shift my family life around my business if I wanted to do it that way round, but that isn't what I wanted.

[00:13:44] I wanted to have a flexible business that it is a kind of like shapeshifter or, um, you know, like, you know, like kinetic sand, how it like

[00:13:52] Rene: Yes.

[00:13:53] Laura: the, the obstacles that are there. That's my business. Like I put in place all of the important blocks or the important [00:14:00] building blocks of our life, and then the kinetic sand that is my business just kind of has to flex around what I've got.

[00:14:05] And so that means the shape of my business has changed many times over since I've been running it.

[00:14:10] Rene: Yeah. I love that. I love that because I feel like if we are doing this only benefits us to do it well, to be able to work around the things that are important to us. So if we're sacrificing those things, we could just go work for somebody else. It's good that we are, we're doing it in a way that works for ourselves and our lives and the, and the change that happens.

[00:14:30] 'cause you're right, it's not always the same from season to season, from age to age, from school to school. Like everything is different. And I can imagine you're probably seeing some big changes at 18 and 16 too. Like it's, it's different.

[00:14:45] Laura: It's different, but they still like, I still want to be around. Like I will still pick up my teenage, he's 18 and I'll still pick him up from the train station, not because he can't walk, like he's a mile, he could walk home. But those five minutes or like the look on his face when a car is there to it's freezing cold and it's like, oh, you came like, yes, I came, it's fine, get in the car.

[00:15:03] Rene: Yes. 

[00:15:04] Laura: Then we get five minutes, just the two of us to come home.

[00:15:06] And then once he started talking, I can hang out in the kitchen with him while he is getting a snack and 'cause the conversation has started already, he'll talk some more and you know, I, I want to be around for those things. It is completely different from when they're little, but I still want the same level of flexibility and availability for them.

[00:15:24] Rene: Yes. Yeah. And you're right, like about the talking, like, I know we're getting off topic, but, um, interesting to me that like, yeah, you, you can't always like plan for when they're going to start talking. Like, sometimes my son will come in at night, like right before bed and he kind of sits there a little bit, like he has something to say, but I don't wanna be like up time for bed.

[00:15:42] Like, you know, you, you have to kind of adapt to, to these things. Like when the opportunity arises, take advantage of it because it's nice. Like it's, it's a good thing.

[00:15:50] Laura: Oh, that's 1:00 AM is, is top talking time, apparently like 1:00 AM and you can just hear someone hovering outside the door and think, okay, [00:16:00] I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to bring it now because I know if you wanna talk to me at 1:00 AM it's gonna be a good one.

[00:16:05] Rene: Yes, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And you can't be like, no, can we reschedule for eight? Like, you know, the opportunity will be missed. So I love that. I love that we're building things around and I love all of your things. Um, so any other thoughts about that first product? When you sat down to create it, like did you have any problems creating it?

[00:16:22] Um, how long did it take? You know, a lot of people will, will go through things like, uh, they've been wanting to do it for a long time and they haven't been able to, or they, they can't hit publish because they're scared of charging for things. You know, like any other thoughts about other, other parts of the first product before we move on? 

[00:16:41] Laura: I don't regret creating it and then not selling it. And I, I think I really noticed that there were lots of people who they want to help, but they have their own opinion on why you're doing something. So, oh yeah, but you created it and you didn't press send. Like you didn't publish it, that's you're holding yourself back for these reasons.

[00:16:59] And I understand where they're coming from and they want to help. But I also trust my own level of self-awareness that I knew before I was ready to sell it. I didn't mind other people seeing my work. I was ready for that. I knew that there was something not quite right and it needed to exist in a different format.

[00:17:17] And I think that the thing that's helped me the most in creating so many products is knowing like my own stumbling. I know where I'm gonna stumble. So I'm one of those people where, um, I don't mind creating it. Like it, it just comes like if I, the course exists in my mind as soon as I thought about it, it's all there and it's ready to come out.

[00:17:34] And so I have to work really fast to get the thing created and to trim it down, to make it something that's usable for other people and not totally overwhelming. Um, and I don't mind other people seeing it, but it's the boring bits of like hooking up

[00:17:49] Rene: Mm 

[00:17:49] Laura: sales page has gotta talk to the checkout, and then it's gotta talk to the email.

[00:17:53] And it, like, that stuff drives me crazy and it's not hard. I, I can do it, but it's just really dull and I know that [00:18:00] about myself. And so instead of getting like way into my head about, but am I upper limiting? Or like, am is it self-doubt? Like no, it's not. It's just boring and I don't like it. So what I'm gonna do is create a sales page with a timer on it and say if anybody buys it before I've hooked all this stuff up.

[00:18:13] So I've got like the outline. I haven't recorded and edited the videos. If you wanna get the like Eager Beaver discount, what I always call it, it's sort of early birds, like eager beaver discount. You can have it for like a third of the price I'm gonna sell it for or half the price. Here, go buy it by this date.

[00:18:29] And I know that as soon as 20 people have bought it, I'm going to do all of that boring rubbish because people have paid me and I've promised them that they're gonna get this thing. And I learned quite quickly, like that's the thing that I trip up on. I don't think it's a like mindset thing. I think that's just quite a natural aversion to wanting to do the boring fiddly tasks.

[00:18:47] But if I make a promise to people that this thing exists, I will get all of that done so that they can have the thing. And so I've just followed that process every time I've launched something I have once had, well, twice, twice, once I've sold things and I've had to back out of it. So a few people bought it and then I needed a small operation.

[00:19:04] I was just like looking at my calendar like it's not gonna happen. Like some my situation changed. I wasn't gonna be able to create this thing, and so I just refunded them and they were all fine about it. Um, and another time I put a thing out there and I was like, I'm gonna create this thing. It's gonna be amazing.

[00:19:17] And nobody bought it.

[00:19:19] Rene: Hmm.

[00:19:20] Laura: And

[00:19:20] Rene: Why do you think?

[00:19:21] Laura: Excellent.

[00:19:21] Hopeful, like save myself a lot of money and not, it's a lot of time editing videos because I'm not gonna record the videos because nobody's bought this thing.

[00:19:29] So for the most part, that strategy of pre-selling something where I've 70% created the content, but haven't done the boring bit of recording the videos and setting it all up.

[00:19:38] That has worked to, um, help me like be so prolific, creating content, but, which is interesting 'cause it's nothing like how I did it. I don't regret not doing it that way for the first products. I still think that was the way I like, I'm happy with how things panned out with that, but it's interesting that I've never done it that way again.

[00:19:56] I've never created a course. Got it ready, got the sales page, and then [00:20:00] planned a launch ever. That's the only time I've ever done it, and I didn't launch that thing.

[00:20:03] Rene: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting and I think it's, there's a lot in here about you knowing what works for you and what doesn't work for you. So I like that. It just makes it so much easier on yourself. Like, okay, well this is what works. If I sell to that many people, then I make it. And why do you think that one didn't sell?

[00:20:19] That's interesting.

[00:20:21] Laura: I thought it was, it was a new audience. We just, I was cross promoting with somebody else. So they worked in a very specific niche and they had a very large audience. And we thought that something that I already had would be a good match for them if I tailor made it for that niche. So I didn't need to put a huge amount of effort into it.

[00:20:35] And so I just put the sales page together and said, does anybody want it? And the answer was no. I don't know. It just wasn't a good fit for the niche. They, they didn't really know me. Um. As well either. So, but, uh, I love that story because then when anybody says to me, oh, I've put this thing together and nobody bought it, like, yeah, like it happens, it happens to us all.

[00:20:55] And then the next thing I sold would've sold loads of, you know, would've sold to hundreds of people probably. It just, sometimes it happens like that.

[00:21:02] Rene: Mm-Hmm. Yeah, definitely. And you mentioned audience. So initially you said you didn't have that many people, but it sounds like now you have, or have you actively built your email list to be able to sell to people? And how have you done that? I

[00:21:16] Laura: Yes. I mean, it's about 4,000 people now, so it's not a massive email list, but it's like a nice and enough amount that I know that if I launch something, people will buy it. Although this last year I've tried to launch less new brand new things and make more of the things that I've already got. Um, I, I sort of accidentally built the audience, which sounds ridiculous, but. I wanted to teach in other people's membership, like I didn't have, I didn't have an idea of like, build the audience and then you sell them something. I just didn't have that all planned out. I just really liked teaching people about writing their own sales pages and writing their own about pages. And so I got invited to teach in other people's memberships.

[00:21:59] And then, [00:22:00] um, someone who I had like a kind of business crush on was launching her first podcast, at Cali Willows from the Membership Geeks. And I was like, oh, I like, I would never, ever have had the courage to be on a podcast or like put myself forward for anything like that. But I really just fancied the chance to talk to Callie.

[00:22:19] 'cause I really liked chatting with her in the forums. And like I said, it's just like a real business crush of I love what you do, like please let me come and talk to you. So I asked to go on her podcast and she said, yep, that's that's fine. And I was like. I was hooked. It was so much fun recording a podcast interview of that.

[00:22:34] So I then did a series of them, and this is back, this is about 2018, I think. 2018 was like my grand tour year, and I ended up going on a bunch of podcasts. And so my email list grew and then I was like, oh, I've got this, like these people now who would like to buy something from me. I don't really have anything to sell them.

[00:22:49] So it was, um, you know, both processes were happening at the same time where I was like accidentally building this audience and then coming up with things that they could buy so that I could free up my time from one-to-one work. So I could go and do some more podcast episodes.

[00:23:02] Um, it was great fun. And then I, um, was a guest on car, uh, Carrie Green's Female Entrepreneur Association podcast.

[00:23:12] And then she mentioned in that during the interview, like, oh, you should come and be a um, guest, uh, expert like teacher of the month to my membership. And so I did that and that went out in March 2020 when the world was ever so slightly distracted by something else. And it was like, uh, this finale performance where I was like, yep, I've done it now.

[00:23:30] Like that was the thing that I really wanted to do. And then I just didn't do any more teaching or podcasts for ages afterwards. We were kind of distracted, you know, we had other things to be getting on with I, so I sort of fell off that wagon.

[00:23:40] Rene: Mm-Hmm. Right.

[00:23:42] Laura: And then my audience growth kind of stumbled at that point, and now I'm just starting to like pick it back up again and put some more effort into it.

[00:23:49] Rene: Yeah. That's awesome. And that's a great point, that it's not always linear and it's not always a like you have to do this and then you do this, and then you do this. Like even some people who [00:24:00] have, you know, they create a product and they launch it, but they don't have any way into the product.

[00:24:04] So then they create like a lead magnet that leads into the product and that sales sequence, like, you know, you can start with with that free lead magnet, and then as people are downloading it, then create that thing. But yeah, there's, there's many ways to, to do this. And it's not just any one specific way.

[00:24:20] So, yeah.

[00:24:21] Laura: Exactly like there are so many different parts of it that you need to work on that you might as well just go where you feel excited to do the work. Like start here if that, if that seems shiny and attractive, then go for it. And then like you said, there's so many different bits to work on, but as soon as you finish working on one.

[00:24:38] The thing that you worked on last year needs updating and you need to go back to it anyway. So like you're never this idea that you put all these pieces together and it's like this beautiful, um, like marble run where

[00:24:49] Rene: Mm-Hmm.

[00:24:50] Laura: all the parts together and then you just put the people in the top and then they like, and the money comes out the bottom.

[00:24:55] Like, no, it doesn't work like that because the whole time you're building this thing, there's something else in the room like knocking it all over and moving all the pieces and like, and you decide, oh, I don't like those marble, I don't want those people anymore. 

[00:25:05] I like these other people much more and I need this money instead of that money, and I wanna do this work instead of that work.

[00:25:10] So like you're just working on it all the time anyway.

[00:25:13] Rene: Yes. Yeah. And so that's a great point about how are you going back and like updating any of these workbooks or journals or courses? Like do you have like a schedule or is it like, oh, I haven't looked at that for a while, I'd wanna look at it again. Like how do you know when it's time to update something?

[00:25:31] Laura: So at the moment I'm working through them to put them onto Hello Audio, to like have a private podcast feed for as many of my courses as I can. Almost all of them will work like that. There's a couple where, because it's quite visual, because I'm explaining copywriting things and you need to look at the writing, like it just wouldn't make any sense.

[00:25:46] But most of them can go and have a private podcast feed. So that's like number one is to get. It's like, leave the courses as they are, but get the content up on a podcast. As I'm doing that, I'm obviously looking to see, I'm going through the content at [00:26:00] the same time, like to see if anything's jumping out at me as like, oh, I wouldn't explain it like that anymore.

[00:26:04] That feels outdated. But luckily most of the things I talk about don't age quickly. 'cause it's not specific to like a social media platform or um, you know, Facebook ads. It's not like a specific way of doing something where the technology is updated regularly. So they age quite well. Um, mostly the pattern I've noticed in myself is me thinking that, oh, that course is so embarrassingly out of date.

[00:26:27] I really need to update it. It's probably rubbish 'cause I wrote it ages ago. Nobody would ever wanna look at it. And then I go in and look at it and go, oh wow, this is great.

[00:26:36] Rene: Yes, yes. I've had that same experience. 

[00:26:40] Laura: been hiding it away? 

[00:26:41] Rene: Yes, yes. I totally agree. I've done that with like some emails, like I've looked back at some emails that I've sent before, some, anything really like that, and I'm like, you know, this isn't too bad. Like it's, uh, it's nice. It's refreshing. So yeah, go back and look at your stuff.

[00:26:55] Laura: Yeah, I don't know why I have such a low opinion of like myself six months or 12

[00:26:59] Rene: Right?

[00:26:59] Laura: two years ago, and I'm always pleasantly surprised about what she was able to achieve.

[00:27:03] Rene: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Like, oh, great work. Yeah. Very cool. I love that. So how are you coming up with the new products that you create? Like, so you have this big audience now. Are you going back to them every once in a while and saying like, Hey, what do you guys need? Or are you just thinking like, oh, I know what people need.

[00:27:24] Do you guys want it? Or a combination of things like how are you generating ideas for each, each new thing that you create? Oh, and I wanna talk about the private podcast too. We'll come back to that. Yeah, go ahead.

[00:27:35] Laura: I have a three month mentoring program now, which is again, like the evolution of the group program. So it's me working one-to-one with people. It's all based on Voxer or like, uh, doing like screen share videos, them sending me Google documents. So it's all like asynchronous collaboration and I absolutely love working this way.

[00:27:51] Um, but obviously there's a whole bunch of questions that come up and if I don't have a course answers the question, then [00:28:00] it goes, you know, I think, oh, well, okay. That's, that's an idea for a course. I'm also starting, um, an Ask Laura private podcast feed that is for people who have my all, like, I have an all access pass.

[00:28:10] It's like, here's everything. You don't get one to one time with me, but I. Here's all of the courses, go dig in. Um, I prefer selling like that because the courses make sense. If you can, you don't have to stack them one on top of the other, but they do make sense and they work really well together. Um, so I'm I, the short questions that I can answer, I.

[00:28:29] Recording an audio and then that goes on the podcast feed because it's not like, I don't wanna do like a whole training just to answer something I can answer in five minutes. Um, but at the moment I'm working on a subject line training just 'cause it keeps coming up over and over again. And when I tried to answer it in a succinct way, I realized there's actually quite a few different things I wanna say about subject lines and, you know, like how it appears in your inbox and preview sentences.

[00:28:51] And once I, um it started writing it down. I realized this is, well, first of all, I thought this is gonna be a lesson inside another course, and I was like, oh no. This is actually an entire course all on its own, just about subject lines. It probably will take under 60 minutes for someone to complete it, maybe 30 to 60 minutes.

[00:29:07] But I really like this idea that if you're stuck writing a subject line in this particular example, you can just, it exists on my course platform and you can just go get it and it's gonna help you do the thing you wanna do, and you can come back to it as many times as you need to. So my newer products are definitely more focused on helping you do a very specific thing, and I just create them.

[00:29:26] When someone, you know, when it's come up enough times, I think, yes, it's just gonna be easier to create a course and send people to that. Having said that, I tell myself it's gonna be really easy and I do something like, write on my list Monday afternoon, you're gonna write this course material as if I sit down for two or three hours and that's all the time I'm gonna need.

[00:29:45] Rene: Mm-Hmm.

[00:29:46] Laura: And now we're like. Thursday afternoon, and I'm like, yeah, no. I mean, I did spend, I've done the work. I spent all of Monday afternoon doing it. It's not that I've procrastinated on this, but no, I am absolutely nowhere near finished doing it.

[00:29:57] Rene: Yes. Yeah, that's a big thing. Like it's, you know, [00:30:00] like create course is not a one to do item. Like you have to really break that down. Yeah. In a minute. And I think if you, if you can break it down, it's so much more satisfying because then you can actually check something off. I hate the task and I, I love the kind of productivity, this sort of stuff, but I hate the idea that like, I put something on the list, but I can't check it off.

[00:30:18] But I did work on it, so like, how can I reword it? To be able to check it off and then I can add it as a different task, you know, the next day or whatever. But it just feels like, okay, I did something. Not just like I did a bunch of work, but look, I didn't do anything. I don't know, it's like a mind game or something. 

[00:30:34] I'm seeing so much about these private podcasts lately, like so much. And I'm seeing people do this sort of thing where they take their course or they take their workbook or, or whatever, even even their lead magnet and kind of explain it via audio, because I don't know, we're tired of looking at screens, but we still want to absorb the information.

[00:30:53] But the private podcast is, uh, maybe better than a public podcast. I, I don't know. I'm seeing a lot about this. So like, how did you come up with this? I guess maybe, I dunno, what are your goals for the private podcasts? Or just, I don't know any thoughts about private podcasts that we haven't talked about. 

[00:31:10] Laura: So I like, I have absolutely no plans to have a public podcast. There's like free content that goes out to people. Um, and to start off with, it was just people asked, they just. They'd seen other course creators create private podcast feeds of their course content. So it's not all it is, is a pri a podcast feed that is entirely made up of the audio stripped from an existing course.

[00:31:32] Um, and I don't, it's, it was really difficult for me to wrap my head around it, 'cause that's not me. I was like, that's not how I learn.

[00:31:39] Like, just go in the course platform and watch the video

[00:31:42] Rene: From start to finish.

[00:31:43] Laura: that not what you wanna do?

[00:31:44] Rene: Yes. Yes, exactly. A hundred percent

[00:31:48] Laura: So I was like, okay, well, you know, if it, if, if it means that much to you, then I will give it a go. And it wasn't that hard to take the course material that I already had and put it in, um, the first one, put it in Hello Audio, [00:32:00] and basically people just started giving me really lovely feedback about it and sending me pictures. them. Like, I'm out walking my dog and I'm listening to this course. Um, or like, I watched the course and I just needed a re refresher, so I'm listening to it while I'm cooking dinner. Or they just explained to me like how they use, I didn't ask them to tell me like, or to justify its existence. They just spontaneously gave me feedback that made me realize like, oh, actually this is really helpful to people.

[00:32:23] So I started putting, um more of the courses on. It's a very, it, it really is not hard work to do. But again, it's one of those things that's like, sits on the to-do list, and then a bunch of other stuff climbs on top of it. And then every now and then I'll think I'm gonna do a whole course and put it on the podcast right now.

[00:32:39] And it literally takes me an hour to do. So it's not, it's not a big deal to, um, so yeah, I'll keep going with that just because other people find it helpful. And then the Ask Laura Private podcast, which is gonna be much more like, it more like a public podcast as we know them. It's only gonna be available to people who hold my all access pass.

[00:32:58] Um, yeah, I'm just gonna record that like 10 minute episodes once a week drip fed as they go out. I mean, I'm literally just started working on it now. And that idea came from, uh, listening to Hello Audio's own podcast about how people use their podcast feeds and Mariah Coz if I said her name properly, um, she has started doing something similar for people who are in her group program.

[00:33:21] I was like, that's genius. 'cause I get so many questions and I like type out this answer on email, which is fine. Like I love answering people's questions, but I'm so inefficient of like, then someone else asked me a question, I think. Yeah, I'm pretty certain I answered that question like three weeks ago, but I can't remember who I sent that email to.

[00:33:37] So there's, and I try and think of like two or three words I might have used in the email to put it in the search button.

[00:33:42] Rene: Yes. And it doesn't come up. And what did you say instead? Yes, you're in your sent items.

[00:33:47] Laura: I,

[00:33:48] Rene: Yeah,

[00:33:49] Laura: so then I'll just type out the answer again because, um, I need to now 'cause this person's waiting for their answer. So yeah, this just seems like a much more efficient use of my time to be able to record them, um, and then be able [00:34:00] to point people to an episode.

[00:34:02] Rene: So for the courses, like will you have a separate audio feed for each course then? Like, so are you're gonna have like 10 different, like how, how does that work in Hello Audio? Like you could just kind of have them all there.

[00:34:17] Laura: What, how it works, like from the user's perspective when they log into the course, say like, I've got a course called Persuasion Power ups. If you log into that right at the start, there's a module that says, would you prefer to listen to this as a private podcast feed? And it explains how you would do that with some screenshots that says like, you click on this link, you put your email address in, um, and then you get some buttons.

[00:34:37] I'm not doing a very good job of explaining this

[00:34:39] Rene: I've, I, yeah,

[00:34:40] Laura: savvy I am with

[00:34:41] Rene: I've seen it. Yeah. You just click the button for what you need. Yeah.

[00:34:45] Laura: like how you wanna listen, and then magically it is on your phone, which is incredibly clever. And so then when they went into like their Google podcast, it would say, Laura Robinson Persuasion Power Ups.

[00:34:56] And they could just listen to the whole course there in their feed.

[00:34:59] Rene: Okay. Awesome. Ah, I love it. It's so good. It's so good. Um, so many new things that are coming out of this, you know, that just like things changing because I think this just wasn't a thing years ago, but now, you know, we're more into audio and, and you know, with the, I feel like private podcast, I don't know, just like a big boom lately. 

[00:35:17] So your all access pass is interesting. So I think a lot of times when people buy a course, they get like lifetime acts like, like lifetime of the course, right? Like you get it for all time. But with your access pass, I noticed it said like per year. So they're only getting access. To all of your courses, like for the year that they've paid for, is that right?

[00:35:42] Laura: So there's lots of people who have already bought the courses, they own them outright, like that doesn't change, they don't have to pay anything. And I did a period where I said like, if you've owned some of the courses, but you wanna access the rest of them, then get in touch. And I did like a discounted rate so that it kind of reflected what they, how much of the courses [00:36:00] they already owned.

[00:36:01] Um. But there were sort of two there. Two things came up for me at the same time. One was I was looking at our massively outdated DVD collection that we have at home. Like we have hundreds of DVDs. My husband used to love buying DVDs, um, and lovingly putting them in this folder. And so we've got racks of them all, like these books that hold them all loose.

[00:36:21] And I was just looking at 'em like, we just don't do that anymore because we just. Have Netflix.

[00:36:26] Uh, and also like Amazon Prime and Disney Plus and Apple TV. 'cause we have them all. Like, why would you not?

[00:36:31] Rene: Right.

[00:36:32] Laura: And it was just in my head, like, why are we, why am I charging people hundreds of pounds to own a course when the people that most need it are usually not in the position to pay that much and I would like help with payment plans, but, and having like flash sales, so things were discounted. Um, it just, something just felt off, like there was just, just a mismatch between 'em. And I was trying to figure out like, how can I make this work so that it is accessible in the same way as like streaming content is.

[00:37:00] And also I had been running flash sales, so I'd had, I had, um, like the two-tier pricing model where, so you launch at one price and it goes up to full price, and then a few times a year you knock it down to the special offer price. And that special offer price is also in your sales funnel. So someone downloads the lead magnet and then they get like a five days to get it at 60% off.

[00:37:21] And I'm already exhausted just from trying to explain how it works. So.

[00:37:26] Rene: It's a lot.

[00:37:27] Laura: I had set it all up for like 10 products. It took me forever. And I, I was like, I really hate doing this, but I'm gonna keep going. You know, it's just work. I just need to do the work. And I finished setting it all up and I was like, I hate this.

[00:37:37] This is not, you know, it's great. I, I completely understand the benefit of selling in that way. And I also see that for many people who buy in that way, there's also benefits to that. And I often buy products that are sold in that way, but I was just, I just was not loving it. It was just making me really tired.

[00:37:54] I felt really stressed. Every time somebody bought something, I was like checking, had they gone through the right [00:38:00] funnel and had the chance to buy all the right prices and was this fair? And it just wasn't working for me. So thought well why not just bundle them all together? Like they're still available to buy separately if people want them to, but why not just give people the option of paying for a year and just see what happens?

[00:38:16] So I started doing that. I only started doing it in the last few months. So it is very much like a new experiment. But the other part I love about it is that I've been able to start doing these, like Ask Laura podcasts or at the moment. Video recordings where when I'm trying to answer someone's question, I, it's not just one course or there's like parts I want to refer to other things.

[00:38:38] So quite often I want to be able to refer to the Persuasion Powerups, which are seven techniques you can apply to make anything more persuasive. But I feel like when I'm in the answer, I'd be giving away the content. You know, once you know what the seven are, you've got a good chunk of what the value of the course is. I don't wanna hold back from talking to people when I'm looking at their sales page 'cause, oh no, you only bought the sales page course and you haven't bought this other course, and if you bought this other course, it would be be like, it just didn't, trying to keep them separate in my mind and in my answers and the way that I worked with people that wasn't working either.

[00:39:08] So, and it's one of those things like once I'd seen how they gel together I couldn't take them, even though I created them separately. Once I could see how they fit together, I didn't wanna make them be a part anymore. I wanted it to just be all available at once. So I've been trialing that for about three months, I think maybe longer.

[00:39:27] It's probably longer than that actually. It just feels like time has gone really quickly. It was towards like the second half of last year. Um, and I, I'm just so much happier and more comfortable selling that way. Um, so I will keep it that way for the foreseeable future.

[00:39:41] Rene: Mm-Hmm. Yeah. That's nice. And it's nice to be able to do different things with these. You know, so it's not just like, here's a course, here's a course, here's a course, like bundling them. And you also have, so the all access pass is all of them. And you mentioned with that, um, with that private podcast coming and then the mentorship, um, it said has lifetime [00:40:00] access to the current courses plus time with you and there's other ways to work with you one-on-one, and then I really liked at the, at the bottom of the page really, people go look at the page, like click on the link and look at the page.

[00:40:10] Um, you say, because you have so many products like help me. I don't know what I need and I loved it. Now, is it a quiz? I didn't go through it. Like is it a quiz or like it just some questions like what?

[00:40:22] What is it exactly where you help people decide?

[00:40:26] Laura: I think at the moment it just goes to an Airtable form. I've used so many different things. I've had chat, chat ra built on there and there's convert box, and so we've been switching between different ways, but it's, it's just like direct contact with me. You just fill out a form and then we have a little bit of chat back and forth and I can usually recommend like a selection.

[00:40:43] So there'll be free things like blog posts that I've got, freebies, and then if you wanna go deeper, here's this course you might wanna buy. Or like you know, if, if it makes more sense for us to work together, then I would say that. If, if I know somebody else has a blog post or a product that would help with that problem, I'm really happy to refer them in that direction as well.

[00:41:01] So yeah, it's just like one-on-one chat. And that's, I love working like that. I didn't want to create something automated and I've, I have come like, thought it over several times, like, how do I create this massive decision tree or quiz or something that helps people find what they want? And again, like it's not my zone of genius. 

[00:41:18] I don't really enjoy making those kind of things. So if I did, I probably would've put more effort into it, but I don't, I just really enjoy like interacting with people and my best inspiration comes from those interactions. I love it when people reply to my emails. I love it when they pop up in that Ask Laura box and they're like, help me.

[00:41:34] I'm in this situation. I, what can I do? Um, it just helps me, it helps me create better free content and it helps me create better paid offers and it helps me enjoy, like, run, like being in the business and running it rather than it being something that's like a product that's separate from me that I'm not really involved with.

[00:41:54] People wanna sell like that, that's fine, but I, for me, I, I really enjoy that like, interaction with the people that buy from [00:42:00] me.

[00:42:00] Rene: Yeah, I think it makes a big difference because yeah, you're not kind of doing it in a bubble and you're like, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna write this blog post. I think it'll be helpful. Uh, but you're not sure. But yeah, kind of getting that real time feedback, and it's so much easier to create content when somebody is like,

[00:42:14] Hey, I have a question. I think a lot of times we don't want to reach out to creators. Like we think that maybe we're bothering them with our questions, but I feel like that's great fuel for people. They can create something, you know, for you or as a product that you can purchase. Like, I don't know, I just, I think it's, it's good, but we often worry about reaching out, so I

[00:42:37] Laura: I think it's on, like as business owners, we really need to encourage people to ask questions. I have so many different ways that I ask people to get in touch, to reply to emails, fill out this form, click on this button. Like it is so easy to connect with me because I thrive on those questions. And when I work with, um, like people in my mentoring. They often come to me at a point where they've kind of ground to a halt, either like something's happened in their life and so they've lost some momentum, or they're just getting started with a new venture. So that, uh, like that beginning bit where you're just like, how do I get going? Like how do I,

[00:43:08] Rene: Mm-Hmm.

[00:43:08] Laura: you know, how do I write emails when there's hardly anyone who's gonna see them?

[00:43:11] And how do I sell this thing when I've got no one to sell it to. And you've got not, it feels like you don't have very much to work with. You know what you need to do, but your raw material feels lacking, like you don't have that much to work with. And I always encourage them, like, get people to ask you questions.

[00:43:24] That's the beginning is to have as many interactions as you possibly can to generate as many questions as people will give you. And then to make that, um, like almost like a culture of your business. Like that they, that they can see there's this openness and that you are.

[00:43:39] Rene: Mm-Hmm.

[00:43:41] Laura: Inviting their questions in, like willing them to come with their questions because that is the fuel for everything.

[00:43:46] Rene: Yeah, I agree. I agree. I saw a long time ago, and I, I think she had taken it away, but there was like a, a website of a, a person that I knew, and in the footer she had like ask me a question and you clicked on it and it was a form, you filled out the form, [00:44:00] and I just thought that was really cool, like a great way for people to,

[00:44:04] You know, to be able to interact with you. A lot of times I think we kind of put ourselves as, you know, like, we are here and like the creators are up here. Or if you're kind of doing it on a spectrum, like they're so far ahead of us and you know, like they're, but they're people just like us, you know, and they, they need, they need to know what questions we have.

[00:44:20] So it's great to be able to interact. 

[00:44:22] Laura: Definitely. And if you are, like, if you have questions, ask them. You're doing them a massive favor. Say that especially about sales pages. If someone, please make it easy for people to ask you a question, a sales page. In the FAQ on your sales page, the last question on your FAQs should be, I have a question that isn't answered here. 

[00:44:38] Rene: Yes.

[00:44:38] Laura: I get in touch? Because for every one person who gets in touch with a question about your sales page, there were at least 10 other people that had exact same question, but they, they didn't want to or didn't feel brave enough, or couldn't be bothered to get in touch with you.

[00:44:50] Rene: Mm-Hmm. Yeah. And making it easy to do that too. Like I feel like I, I think a lot lately about friction and whenever there's too much friction between me and something I wanna do, like how, how much harder it is to overcome each barrier. So how can we avoid the friction? You know, it's kind of like exercising, like put your shoes out the night before, you know that philosophy.

[00:45:10] Um, but making it also easier for people to ask you those questions. So like, I think that, that, that's important. 

[00:45:16] Laura: When it says, contact me, and you click on it and it likes trying to open your default email system

[00:45:21] Rene: Yes.

[00:45:22] Laura: Never used on your computer

[00:45:23] Rene: yes. Yeah. 

[00:45:24] Laura: I need to get the email address and copy and paste it to my regular email system.

[00:45:27] Rene: Right? Yep. A hundred percent. Yes. Yeah. Don't do that people. Like have a form and make it easy. Yeah. Don't ask them 8,000 questions. Just ask them a couple, like let them tell you what they 

[00:45:38] Laura: telephone number,

[00:45:39] Rene: Right.

[00:45:39] Laura: you absolutely a thousand percent have to have the telephone number. No, I'm not gonna give you my telephone number.

[00:45:45] Rene: Yes, exactly. Yes. Yeah, for sure. Totally agree. Do you wanna give us your maybe two to three pieces of advice for people who have not ever done this before? They're looking to create a product and sell it to people and they're not sure what to do or what not to do.

[00:45:59] Laura: Okay. [00:46:00] I think the best advice I have, if you're thinking of creating a course, is have some kind of system for storing your ideas. So I've used Notion, which is like this magic database notebook thing, don't really understand how it works, but I used to. I used to use everything. Everything went in a notebook, and so I would get through, like I'd get through a notebook a week, like an A4 notebook every week, and I'd start coming up with an idea of like, oh, this could be a course.

[00:46:23] And I'd start writing it out. And then I'd get to the end of the notebook, which also had client notes in it and blog post, I'd did like just a whole bunch of stuff in one notebook, and I'd start the next one, and then I'd start another one, and maybe a month later I think, oh, do you know, I feel like I've written that course about three times over, but the course does not exist yet, and I'd have to go back through all the notebooks to find all of the notes that I had repeated over and over again about this same course. 

[00:46:44] And now I do everything online, or not everything, I still have a notebook, but my courses I create online in Notion. So I just open a folder or document whatever it's called on Notion and call it the name of what I think the course might be called one day. And I just start writing like, okay, maybe this will be in it.

[00:47:00] And this is a good example to share. And someone asked me this question and I answered it in this way. And it seems like it's roughly to do with what this course content would be about. And every time it comes up, I shove it in that folder. And then one day I sit down and I write the course, but it's not writing a course, it's just rearranging raw material that already exists inside a folder and then creating slides and recording a video for it.

[00:47:20] So I don't ever have to create something from sc from scratch. I could create a course like any day of the week. I could just go into Notion if I needed to create a course and find one that's a work in progress and tidy it up and sell it as a course because I've got so many that are on the go at the moment.

[00:47:36] Rene: What if topics overlap? Like, this is kind of where I get a little bit like, because nothing is really like in a, in a bubble. So like, how do you know if you put that note in this document or in this other document? Like, or does it not? Or, or, or does it just overlap and that's fine?

[00:47:51] Laura: Um. Yeah, I mean sometimes you can just copy it, you can have it in both. There's not, so you could like duplicate it and move it across and say you've got it in both. That happens quite a lot [00:48:00] actually. I'd say that's probably the best explanation. Best answer to what you've just said is, uh, if I think about it, you know, I'll answer someone's question.

[00:48:07] I'm like, it's kind of about subject lines, but it also might work for this other thing, so I'm gonna put it in both. And it also doesn't matter if it appears in both courses, like it's gonna be within the context of something else. So. Yeah, there's definitely, I mean, there's repetition between my course.

[00:48:22] There's definitely, because it underneath, it's the same sort of underlying themes and the way that I teach and, um, examples are probably different across, across the courses. But even then, I think if you repeat an example, you're using it in a different context. So I don't think, I wouldn't worry about that too much.

[00:48:37] I think just have it in more places and then delete it if you don't need it, rather than be too frugal and not like spread it around.

[00:48:46] Rene: Yeah, I don't you like, sometimes people get tripped up on like the weirdest things and I just feel like, oh, where do I put it? Like, um, but yes. Yeah, that makes sense. And, and as creators and, and as service providers, we are probably used to saying the same things over and over again.

[00:49:00] My clients will ask me questions like, this client and that client just ask me the same question. So like, it, it's a good practice because also, you know, people aren't listening. Their attention spans, like they need to hear it more than once anyway. So it's, you know. Say it again. Say it again. Say it again.

[00:49:14] So that's probably good. 

[00:49:14] Laura: Um, and just trust that you know, you know yourself best. So you'll like where I've described pre-selling things, like I'll get it so far and then I'll put it for sale, and then I'll do the twiddly bits to hook it up and actually get it ready and out the door. But the other people I've described that too, have just looked at me and horror, like, I would be paralyzed with fear and there is no way I'd be able to create course content like that.

[00:49:35] That's fine. Don't do it that way then. Like you, you'll know yourself best. And you can figure out like little tricks and ways to, to get over, like, where's the most, you said friction. Like we're in the process of coming up with an idea for a course, putting the material together, recording it, getting it all set up, creating the sales page, like that whole process.

[00:49:53] Where are your friction points that are specific to you that you really struggle with? And then figure out ways to, [00:50:00] outsource that or incentivize yourself all the way through it.

[00:50:04] Rene: Yeah.

[00:50:05] Laura: You can figure out for yourself. It doesn't have to look a particular way. It doesn't have to follow a particular system.

[00:50:10] It doesn't have to be done in a particular order. You'll just find your own unique way that works for you.

[00:50:14] Rene: Mm-Hmm. Yeah. I totally agree. Yeah. And, and really trusting yourself and I think that sometimes we don't always quite know. And so that comes with experimenting. Experiment to figure out what for works for you and what works for you for a certain amount of time might not always work for you. So, you know, just realize that like, okay, you might have to make some changes if things stop working or you're in a different phase or, you know, doing something different. So, um, you know, it's, we're it's an ongoing, it's a, it's a journey. Big journey.

[00:50:45] Laura: I find buying myself a jumper that has worked like when I've done this, then I will allow myself a new jumper from this place that I really like to buy jumpers from. But more so now it tends, tends to be a house plant. So now I need to like fall in love with the houseplant at the garden center. When I have done this thing that is a lot of friction and I don't really wanna do it, I'm gonna go and buy that house plant.

[00:51:05] It's gonna come and live with me.

[00:51:07] Rene: That's awesome. Oh, I love that. I love that. That's perfect and beautiful too. And oh, that's great. That's fantastic. Um, so thank you so much for coming on today. Do you wanna tell us where we can find you online?

[00:51:17] Laura: So my website is worditude.co.uk, and if you go to worditude.co.uk/newsletter, that is how you can join the Comfy Business Newsletter, which is the best way to stay in touch with me. I'm not very much on social media. Um, I just prefer writing and I email my list like a couple of times a week. Usually some sort of weird story from my life or something that I've messed up on

[00:51:40] Rene: Mm-Hmm. I love those. Those are great.

[00:51:42] Laura: It's all, it's always around the theme of like having a comfortable business that flexes around your life and whatever challenges, priorities, and adventures you've got going on. So yeah, joining my newsletter is the best way to stay in touch.

[00:51:54] Rene: Awesome. I love that. Yeah. And I love the comfy, like I love the word comfy, cozy, like all those related words, like [00:52:00] I love it. 

[00:52:01] Rene: Hey, thanks for listening. I'd love to continue the conversation in your inbox. Email SUBSCRIBE to hey at yfdp.show or sign up in the show notes to get bi monthly emails about how you can create, launch, and market your first digital product. Can't wait to see you there.